I think having a training for adult leaders is a great idea! I think most
scout leaders want to do a good job, but in some cases like letterboxing,
simply don't know how to go about it properly.



Before I go further, I want to make it clear I do not pass my opinions on
ALL Girl Scouts, but the ones I've had problems with are the ones that seem
to treat letterboxing as an isolated activity. The best ones I've dealt
with have made a greater effort to get involved in the letterboxing
community and they make great letterboxers.



I haven't specifically read the badge requirements myself personally, but
from talking to the unit leaders in my area that I know, it sounds like the
units around here that are promoting letterboxing among GS troops are in a
lot of ways missing the whole point, I think. Or maybe they are using
letterboxing to make the point they want to make, without regard to the
nature of the game.



Since some of the local units have begun boxing, I've noticed a higher
percentage of boxes missing or with problems. Almost invariably when I go
out to check on a box, I find that the next to last log entry is a gaggle of
girlie names and store-bought stamps and a note something to the effect of
"This is so much fun!". I really am glad they are having a good time with
it, but the reason I checked the box was because someone came after them and
reported a problem.



What I notice is that they don't seem to emphasize respecting the effort of
creation which goes into a box or respect for other finders I've seen
girls who have stamped all over previous finders' stamps because the log ran
out of pages. I rarely, rarely receive an email acknowledgement from Girl
Scouts, and it all combines to make me believe they see it as little
different than going to play a game of putt-putt.



That said, I do not fault the girls with these problems the problem is in
the failure of leaders to do a good job of understanding letterboxing before
they pass it along to the girls. And I believe most leaders would be
willing to do a better job, if they knew the job they are doing isn't up to
snuff. All in all, a training is a great idea!

On 10/26/06, Roze wrote:
>
> Well, since you asked...these Scouts used store-bought stamps. That's
> OK and all, but I should think a badge would only be awarded if one
> made one's own stamp. An eraser and an exact-o knife is all you need!
> (Ok, maybe not an exact-o, for safety reasons - perhaps a gouger would
> be acceptable?)
>
> They also used a page per person, even on the large books, using up
> lots of pages - A Public Service Announcement here: if you box as a
> group, stamp in as a group. And: Conserve logbooks space! End of PSA.
>
> And of course, you'll mention sealing all baggies and boxes properly.
> That goes without saying...or so it should!
>
> My two cents - wait, I think this was three cents. I hope your
> training sessions are a big success!
>
> rozebud
>
> --- Tammy Burge > wrote:
>
> >
> > I was actually thinking about asking my service unit if I could do a
> > letterboxing training for the leaders before the interest got too big
> > with
> > girl scouts around here. Now that there are letterboxing patches
> > available
> > out there and "high tech hide and seek" patches for geocaching there
> > will be
> > an interest growth in both boy and girl scout troops in the future.
> > At
> > least I assume there will be. Maybe if the leaders are properly
> > trained the
> > girls will be too. I haven't been letterboxing long but I am the
> > only
> > letterboxer in our service unit so training falls on me. I will be
> > sure to
> > stress the proper placement of boxes and being discrete parts.
> > Anything
> > else I should stress?
> >
> > Tammy
> > RHM
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com ]
> > On Behalf Of Roze
> > Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 3:00 PM
> > To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [LbNA] misplaced boxes
> >
> > You know, I had planned to contact the troupe leader, but life got in
> > the
> > way. Maybe this weekend...
> >
> > Thanks for the reassurance about the GS - way back in the dark ages,
> > when I
> > was a GS, we were taught all the things you say here. I was worried
> > that
> > they didn't bother any more.
> >
> > Anyway, I just have my fingers crossed that there are no more
> > magazine
> > articles any time soon - or if there is, I hope they stress stealth
> > and
> > proper rehideation.
> >
> > rozebud
> >
> >
> >
>
> "Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But
> I repeat myself." -- Mark Twain
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>



--
Barefoot Lucy
"It's not about footwear, it's about philosophy"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Why not contact the troup leaders, and ask if you can come to one of their
meetings (with the girls) to explain it more to them, including how
important it is to rehide boxes better, and be discreet, etc? They would
take it more seriously if they were getting the info first hand, from a real
live expert letterboxer. You could even suggest having a little workshop
with them to show them how to make their own stamps - maybe do 2 sessions
with them. Lots of times, they're really looking for ideas of what to do at
the meetings, and since they have a badge for this I would think they would
go for it.

waiting pilgrim

I know in my case, I've done that. It seems in my area they don't want to
have outside input.

The mom of one of the Girl Scout families that has really gotten into
letterboxing around here told me the other day that she is planning on doing
a lesson for them, and I think that's the best of all worlds - she's gotten
familiar with the activity so she knows it well enough to teach it, and she
is from within the GS world.




On 10/27/06, arjanz@mts.net wrote:
>
> Why not contact the troup leaders, and ask if you can come to one of
> their
> meetings (with the girls) to explain it more to them, including how
> important it is to rehide boxes better, and be discreet, etc? They would
> take it more seriously if they were getting the info first hand, from a
> real
> live expert letterboxer. You could even suggest having a little workshop
> with them to show them how to make their own stamps - maybe do 2 sessions
> with them. Lots of times, they're really looking for ideas of what to do
> at
> the meetings, and since they have a badge for this I would think they
> would
> go for it.
>
> waiting pilgrim
>
>
>



--
Barefoot Lucy
"It's not about footwear, it's about philosophy"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

With Girl Scout badges you are given several options on activities. You
choose 4 of them if you are a brownie and six of them if you are a junior.
So, even if carving is an activity toward the patch they may not choose it.
I do think conserving space would be a good point to make. I don't like to
stamp in on the back of a page where others have stamps strictly because the
owner of the box may want to scrapbook the pages later. I noticed most of
the books in boxes I have found do not have stamps on both sides. We do
stamp more than one stamp on the same side of the page though. The sealing,
hiding and being discrete will definitely be high on the priority list
though.

Thank you very much for your input.

Tammy
RHM

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Roze
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 10:17 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Girl Scout training (was: [LbNA] misplaced boxes)

Well, since you asked...these Scouts used store-bought stamps. That's OK
and all, but I should think a badge would only be awarded if one made one's
own stamp. An eraser and an exact-o knife is all you need!
(Ok, maybe not an exact-o, for safety reasons - perhaps a gouger would be
acceptable?)

They also used a page per person, even on the large books, using up lots of
pages - A Public Service Announcement here: if you box as a group, stamp in
as a group. And: Conserve logbooks space! End of PSA.

And of course, you'll mention sealing all baggies and boxes properly.
That goes without saying...or so it should!

My two cents - wait, I think this was three cents. I hope your training
sessions are a big success!

rozebud

And having someone talk or teach something on the subject is usually one of
the requirements to choose from. That would not one requirement off the
list right away. Benefit to them and teaching them would be benefit to the
letterboxing community. Win - Win situation.

Tammy


-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of arjanz@mts.net
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 10:05 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Girl Scout training (was: [LbNA] misplaced boxes)

Why not contact the troup leaders, and ask if you can come to one of their
meetings (with the girls) to explain it more to them, including how
important it is to rehide boxes better, and be discreet, etc? They would
take it more seriously if they were getting the info first hand, from a real
live expert letterboxer. You could even suggest having a little workshop
with them to show them how to make their own stamps - maybe do 2 sessions
with them. Lots of times, they're really looking for ideas of what to do at
the meetings, and since they have a badge for this I would think they would
go for it.

waiting pilgrim

Just had to add my 2 cents

I letterbox with my Camp fire group (13-16 years old) and with my 4
year old son.
I've only been "caught" once and that was by someone that knew all
about letterboxing and we were stamping no were near where the box
was actually planted.


I've tried to teach them everything they need to know. They
currently use store bought stamps that are 1/2 inch x 1/2inch very
small so they can all have a stamp, but we aren't using up pages on
a log book. (we are going to try to carve some, but I know I'm
having a hard time with it)
I do plan on taking them to a site and let each one search for,
stamp and replace the box individually. I will check it after each
girl and make sure that everything is done correctly. If there is an
issue I will be able to address it with the person that has the
problem. Until that time I try to make sure that everything is
replaced corectly before I walk away. Have i ever forgotten - could
be, but I do try.
The other thing I did was the second outing was a verRRRYYY long
hike (all day) in a less then easy walk area. I figured that if
letterboxing wasn't for them - that hike would do it. and it was in
August - I'm lucky I'm not floating in the lake. They all came back
again for it so I guess they really do enjoy it.

The other thing I do is I try to scope out the area before I take
them. If I don't think it will work - it's a no go.

The person that I've had the most problems with ??? My 50 + year old
mother - she can't keep her mouth shut when we meet someone on the
trail and she doesn't understand that why the planters don't mark
where the letterboxes are hidden with a BIG note that says LETTERBOX
HERE with a big arrow pointing to it. I'm hoping the next big hike
will do her in :)!
Sorry to go on and on....
Evilmommy

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Barefoot Lucy"
wrote:
>
> I know in my case, I've done that. It seems in my area they don't
want to
> have outside input.
>
> The mom of one of the Girl Scout families that has really gotten
into
> letterboxing around here told me the other day that she is
planning on doing
> a lesson for them, and I think that's the best of all worlds -
she's gotten
> familiar with the activity so she knows it well enough to teach
it, and she
> is from within the GS world.
>
>
>
>
> On 10/27/06, arjanz@... wrote:
> >
> > Why not contact the troup leaders, and ask if you can come to
one of
> > their
> > meetings (with the girls) to explain it more to them, including
how
> > important it is to rehide boxes better, and be discreet, etc?
They would
> > take it more seriously if they were getting the info first hand,
from a
> > real
> > live expert letterboxer. You could even suggest having a little
workshop
> > with them to show them how to make their own stamps - maybe do 2
sessions
> > with them. Lots of times, they're really looking for ideas of
what to do
> > at
> > the meetings, and since they have a badge for this I would think
they
> > would
> > go for it.
> >
> > waiting pilgrim
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Barefoot Lucy
> "It's not about footwear, it's about philosophy"
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I have been to speak to two local girl scout troops about
letterboxing. I worked with one of the troops to make their own hand
carved stamps (they had no problem using my lino cutters.) The troop
went out with me to find their first box. They loved it and I was able
to explain important points like re-hiding carefully.

Moonstone

For the girl scout tread, I went to their website and with this map you can locate a "council" (group) in your area. If we all contact our local group and offer to teach them if this is something they're planning on doing... wouldn't this help? What does everyone think?
http://www.girlscouts.org/councilfinder/

And shouldn't we include boy scouts?

Travel'n Turtle



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Althea Gill
wrote:
>
> For the girl scout tread, I went to their website and with this map
you can locate a "council" (group) in your area. If we all contact our
local group and offer to teach them if this is something they're
planning on doing... wouldn't this help? What does everyone think?
> http://www.girlscouts.org/councilfinder/
>
> And shouldn't we include boy scouts?
>
> Travel'n Turtle

My first thought is why invite trouble? :o)

My second thought... Why not just offer your services to the council's
troops *if they so desire* rather than offering to come do training
when there hasn't been an expressed interest in the activity *by the
girls*.

I know that might seem confusing, but here's my train of thought on it.
Girl Scouts is all about the GIRLS--the girls are the ones who are
suposed to choose their own badges/areas of interest. Unfortunately,
I've known many troops throughout my years in scouting, where the
leaders decide what the troop is going to do.

When we go out and give training to the leaders, the leaders then take
this back to the troops and, I feel, there is undue pressure for the
girls to choose the badges that their leaders guide them to, usually
because the leaders either have had training in that area or it's an
area of interest to them personally.

So, by going in and training the leaders without knowing if there is an
interest in that council from the *girls* point of view, we are leading
them to letterboxing and frankly, perhaps the girls just wouldn't have
normally chosen that badge to begin with and, from our point of view,
it's better not to have people letterboxing unless they have a vested
interest in it.

So, call the council and offer your services to any TROOP who requests
it. That way, you are more assured that the girls have expressed an
interest in the activity and you haven't just sparked an idea in a
troop leader's head about a way to 'entertain' the girls. It's also
easier to teach the nuances of letterboxing to smaller groups.

alwayschaos wrote:

"So, call the council and offer your services to any TROOP who requests
it. That way, you are more assured that the girls have expressed an
interest in the activity and you haven't just sparked an idea in a
troop leader's head about a way to 'entertain' the girls. It's also
easier to teach the nuances of letterboxing to smaller groups."

******************

The problem I see with extending that offer to the council is that you have
to assume that when the girls express an interest the first thought that
runs through a troop leader's head is "Oh hey! Let me call my council to
see if they have a training opportunity for this..." I know that with girls
scouts as well as cub/boy scouts (which is where my own involvement is both
as a council trainer and as a unit leader) in our area, unless it is a
down-the-line traditional scout activity like camping, the first thought of
a unit leader isn't to seek help from the council. It sure wouldn't hurt to
let your council's training folks know about it, but I wouldn't count on
units learning of your offer through the council.

As with so many things in letterboxing, I think the best approach is to lay
the groundwork and be prepared for the interest when it occurs. For anyone
who has ever lived in a low box population area, you probably realize that
the best way to attract boxers is to plant boxes. This works for scouts too
- plant boxes with their names on it, and they will come out, and they may
well contact you for help since you've offered boxes geared toward them. I
have a Cub Scout series and a Girl Scout series myself.

--
Barefoot Lucy
"It's not about footwear, it's about philosophy"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Barefoot Lucy"
wrote:
> The problem I see with extending that offer to the council is that
you have to assume that when the girls express an interest the first
thought that runs through a troop leader's head is "Oh hey! Let me
call my council to see if they have a training opportunity for
this..."
*****

I understand what you are saying. When I led troops of older girls,
though, part of exploring a new area of interest was for the girls
to find out where to get training in it, hence my suggestion to make
it girl driven rather than leader driven. I'm a stickler for scouts
being scout driven rather than leader driven....I'm just funny that
way! :o)

A group of great ladies in RI got together a few years ago to make
and plant a group of boxes for GS at their private camp. This is an
excellent way to give them the opportunity to learn about
letterboxing. Many times councils offer opportunities for troops to
get together with other troops for different events at camp--this
would be an opportune time to offer a bit of training directly to the
girls.

If you contact a leader in the area they can tell you who the service unit
director is. I know the service units around here are always looking for
new things to offer the leaders and the girls. A letterboxing event could
be planned that the girls and leaders could take part in. Stations could be
set up for stamp carving, box building, etc. That way the leaders can learn
and any interested girls could learn too.

If you contact the council in your area they would be able to tell you the
service units in your area as well as a leader could.

Just a thought.

Tammy
RHM

In Boy Scouting, we have something similar called a "Merit Badge
Counselor", where an adult will provide guidance for an individual
boy or a group of boys with an interest in earning a merit badge in a
given subject. For example, Orienteering or Geology. Local Council
provides a list of Merit Badge Counselors to Scoutmasters, Troops or
boys that take the initiative to contact council (Scoutmasters and
Troops have these lists periodically emailed). It is pretty much
an "on demand" service.

Boy Scouts of America does not offer a similar badge to the Girl
Scouts "High Tech Hide and Seek" Badge, though I think it would be
much fun for the boys. I am a Merit Badge Counselor for several
other subject that I have a knowledge in and enjoy this means of
encouraging boys to broaden their individual horizons.

LB



--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "alwayschaos"
wrote:

<>

> >
> > And shouldn't we include boy scouts?
> >
> > Travel'n Turtle
>
> My first thought is why invite trouble? :o)
>
> My second thought... Why not just offer your services to the
council's
> troops *if they so desire* rather than offering to come do training
> when there hasn't been an expressed interest in the activity *by
the
> girls*.
>
> I know that might seem confusing, but here's my train of thought on
it.
> Girl Scouts is all about the GIRLS--the girls are the ones who are
> suposed to choose their own badges/areas of interest.
Unfortunately,
> I've known many troops throughout my years in scouting, where the
> leaders decide what the troop is going to do.
>
> When we go out and give training to the leaders, the leaders then
take
> this back to the troops and, I feel, there is undue pressure for
the
> girls to choose the badges that their leaders guide them to,
usually
> because the leaders either have had training in that area or it's
an
> area of interest to them personally.
>
> So, by going in and training the leaders without knowing if there
is an
> interest in that council from the *girls* point of view, we are
leading
> them to letterboxing and frankly, perhaps the girls just wouldn't
have
> normally chosen that badge to begin with and, from our point of
view,
> it's better not to have people letterboxing unless they have a
vested
> interest in it.
>
> So, call the council and offer your services to any TROOP who
requests
> it. That way, you are more assured that the girls have expressed
an
> interest in the activity and you haven't just sparked an idea in a
> troop leader's head about a way to 'entertain' the girls. It's
also
> easier to teach the nuances of letterboxing to smaller groups.
>

I just had to chime in here. My daughter is a Cadette/Studio 2B. Back
in September she used letterboxing to achieve part of her Silver
Award. She and another Cadette in her troop planted a few boxes on
Girl Scout Campgrounds, created totes that can be signed out from our
council, and lead two sessions at a recent leaders training weekend.
She tought roughly 50 adults about letterboxing..including proper
etiquette. As far as "teaching" letterboxing to a troop, be flexible.
Brownies should NOT be carving stamps, but foam shapes glued to the
end of a mini m&m canister works great. Also, to prevent possible
problems later, try planting a box or two just for the class. This way
there is no problem with discretion. The box is going to be removed
anyway. Hope this helps with all of your great ideas for helping
scouts learn about and enjoy letterboxing.

Florida Sunsets

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Tammy Burge"
wrote:
>
> And having someone talk or teach something on the subject is usually
one of
> the requirements to choose from. That would not one requirement off the
> list right away. Benefit to them and teaching them would be benefit
to the
> letterboxing community. Win - Win situation.
>
> Tammy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of arjanz@...
> Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 10:05 AM
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Girl Scout training (was: [LbNA] misplaced boxes)
>
> Why not contact the troup leaders, and ask if you can come to one of
their
> meetings (with the girls) to explain it more to them, including how
> important it is to rehide boxes better, and be discreet, etc? They would
> take it more seriously if they were getting the info first hand,
from a real
> live expert letterboxer. You could even suggest having a little
workshop
> with them to show them how to make their own stamps - maybe do 2
sessions
> with them. Lots of times, they're really looking for ideas of what
to do at
> the meetings, and since they have a badge for this I would think
they would
> go for it.
>
> waiting pilgrim
>